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Identity Politics

Anonymous

IN

xex0wB

No.4106

Leftoids need to realize that as long as humans have the ability to form associations and there are incentives to do so, some form of racism, classism, ethnocentrism, etc will continue to exist.

The only question is, are the currently prevalent forms of associations moral and effective? The answer is clearly no, at least for India where most rightoids support mobilization based on outdated identities like caste and religion.

Leftoids need to criticize this and promoto ethnic nationalism as the only viable alternative, for it will at least serve as a relatively better system of social hierarchy and an instrumental goal towards their egalitarian utopia.

Anonymous

SK

oMRgKy

No.4107

Lmao people can barely read here and you want to discuss identity politics ?

Anonymous

IN

xex0wB

No.4108

>>4107

True, I know that the average user here is extremely low iq but I still wanted to post my ramblings somewhere

Obliterator 9000

IN

ql9iWb

No.4110

>>4106(OP)

>outdated identities

>religion

absolutely required. the day islam and judaism is removed, bharat will have no enemies to its progress

Anonymous

SK

D9DV8Y

No.4112

>>4110

trvth-nvke

Anonymous

IN

2ig/42

No.4113

>>4110

You can oppose both of those religions without having a religious identity yourself

Atheist China handles muslims much better than Hindutva chodiji does

Anonymous

IN

33+WeM

No.4114

Hindutva solves it in better way, leftistism is dead in india.

Anonymous

IN

QX2/F9

No.4115

>>4106(OP)

Both the concept of ethnicity and nationalism are foreign to India. Suported only by incels who don't touch grass much.

Outdated identity like caste and religion are still what the primiary tribal identity.

Anonymous

IN

0aeDrZ

No.4118

>>4115

>Both the concept of ethnicity and nationalism are foreign to India

Only the words are foreign, but the things that they describe have existed for millenia in India.

>Suported only by incels who don't touch grass much.

Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, and Marathis all have or had very strong nationalist movements.

>Outdated identity like caste and religion are still what the primiary tribal identity.

That is the reason why India hasnt achieved its potential yet. These are just inferior forms of mobilization as they are less effective at fostering mutually beneficial situations. That is why most of the developed world has moved on from it to ethnic nationalism.

Even within India, the most successful states are clearly the most nationalist/ethnocentric ones.

Anonymous

IN

QX2/F9

No.4119

>>4118

Lol, are you that anon who was arguing that nationalsim was a thing before the 18th century Europe in that other thread? Cuz I have said it before, it's bullshit.

>Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, and Marathis all have or had very strong nationalist movements.

Not one of them have serious nationalistic party seeking their own ethnic homogeneity.

>These are just inferior forms of mobilization as they are less effective at fostering mutually beneficial situations.

Communist brained. People fostering tribal identity bottom up is the only natural way of identity forming.

Anonymous

IN

DNT0IO

No.4124

>>4119

>Lol, are you that anon who was arguing that nationalsim was a thing before the 18th century Europe in that other thread?

No

>Not one of them have serious nationalistic party seeking their own ethnic homogeneity.

Not now, because many people even in those states still primarily identify with caste or religion, and also because national parties have a stranglehold on politics.

But many parties are rising up. And you are utterly clueless if you think these people, especially the south Indians have no ethnocentric sentiments.

>People fostering tribal identity bottom up is the only natural way of identity forming.

Tha natural way of fostering an identity is by associating with people of the same ethnicity, because you share language, culture, artforms, etc. Not splitting into arbitrary tribes even though you share all these. Tribal identities are, as i said, outdated and thats why most of the successful countries have moved on from it.

Also lol at thinking ethnic nationalism is communist brained

Anonymous

IN

QX2/F9

No.4125

>>4124

It's communist brained to think that some glorious leader could just rally the people into thinking of themselves as ANY identity.

Indentity begins with the individual. The connections he builds though his life from school, college, job and romance are the people he calls his tribe. Helped on by the presence of an other group to stand opposed to what you call your own tribe.

Since Independence, people have only grown less and less insular over time. The stuff you called arbitrary werr the connection that was build when people were largely still only living amongst their caste, and the stuff you called natural are the connections of today, with more and more people of the younger generations studying, working and living in different parts of the country.

As for India's linguistic nationalsim, it was always present in terms of chauvinism. With it more pronounced in the more urban, richer states where it had the presence of the outside group of migrants who present an economic threat. But if you think this little phrase will boil over into nationalism as mainstay then you're decades too late for it.

Anonymous

IN

zn5IiV

No.4126

>>4106(OP)

Linguistic ethnicities don’t really resonate in India because they aren’t that relevant, caste is the closest thing we have to an ethnic identity.

In state elections, language isn’t a factor since everyone speaks the same one. In Lok Sabha elections, the scale is too diverse for language (or even caste, for the most part) to dominate. That’s why parties usually field candidates from the locally dominant caste, while the broader contests are fought more on religion.

It’s also a fact that there hasn’t been a single major dispute over linguistic identity in the history of independent India. Virtually all major communal disputes have revolved around religion and caste instead.

Anonymous

IN

zn5IiV

No.4127

Since most Indian groups remain confined to their respective regions, the current wave of hostility against immigrants in major states isn’t really about language. It’s about outsiders acquiring land and opportunities that natives feel belong to them. To think these disputes could be solved simply by teaching immigrants the local language is naïve at best.

Father Painbringer

IN

+YQgeX

No.4140

>>4106(OP)

even leftism is an association. You are concerned about corruption of institutions and not actually the non-existent lack of appreciation of associations by the left (actually read Das Kapital after reading phenomenology of Spirit and The Science of Logic).

And you conclude with a moralizing sermon which is not worthy of any addressing on the same grounds.

Anonymous

IN

xex0wB

No.4141

>>4140

>even leftism is an association

Not in the way that i meant. Caste, religion, and other associations prevalent in identity politics have strong in group bias which means it is mutually beneficial for any person to take part in it. Most people support caste because of gibs, reservation, caste based hiring, etc for example. On the other hand, leftism or any idealist political movement doesnt have any direct, tangible material benefits.

>You are concerned about corruption of institutions and not actually the non-existent lack of appreciation of associations by the left

My post would make sense even from a marxist materialist perspective. Ethnic nationalism fits capitalism better which is historically progressive compared to caste and religious identities which is fit for feudalism. That is why I said leftoids should treat it as an instrumental goal, at the very least. Similar to how Lenin supported some nationalist movements.

Anonymous

IN

xex0wB

No.4142

>>4126

Very gangu brained post.

Most people outside gangu land identify in some level with their language and ethnicity. Punjabis, marathis, and all south indians have strong feelings of ethnic identity. Some Punjabis even identify with paki punjabis.

>It’s also a fact that there hasn’t been a single major dispute over linguistic identity in the history of independent India.

Then you just dont know history. Karnataka vs tn riots, karnataka vs marathi riots due to belgaon, anti hindi riots in tn due to which we have english as an official language, andhra demanding a separate state from madras which is the reason we have linguistic states in the first place, and so many more.

>>4127

Anti migrants bias is one reason. But the main reason is many people are starting to feel that they need to learn hindi just to survive in their own homelands. There are as much telugus in bangalore as northies, but you wont see much hatred towards them because most of them learn kannada, or at least not push telugu to the extent northies push hindi.

Kannadigas look at mumbai and see marathi reduced to kaamwali/working class guy status and dont want that to happen to kannada too

Anonymous

IN

KrcDOX

No.4152

>>4142

>Some Punjabis even identify with paki punjabi

No they don't, unless the association is tied to their religious identity too.

>Karnataka vs tn riots, karnataka vs marathi riots due to belgaon

These are river and land disputes. Such issues can affect you regardless of whatever your personal identity. Not much to do with linguistic identity.

>anti hindi riots in tn due to which we have english as an official language

>But the main reason is many people are starting to feel that they need to learn hindi just to survive in their own homelands

That doesn't really prove anything though. Of course people would unite against something that is being forced on them against their will. Even so, the government devised a plan to slowly incorporate Hindi as the official language in a soft manner but in the end didn’t implement it properly.

>There are as much telugus in bangalore as northies, but you wont see much hatred towards them because most of them learn kannada, or at least not push telugu to the extent northies push hindi.

That is due to proximity. It is much easier for a Telugu speaker to learn Kannada than for a Hindi speaker to do so. Cultural proximity is also a factor here, it’s the same way a person from Uttar Pradesh can adapt much more easily in Bihar than in Karnataka.

>andhra demanding a separate state from madras which is the reason we have linguistic states in the first place

State divisions mostly exist for easier administration. I don't deny that there is definitely some amount of cultural similarity among people speaking the same language, but this isn’t always the case, and many outliers exist. For example, Telangana separated from Andhra despite sharing the same language.

The important nuance here is that language can sometimes serve as the symbolic banner under which these disputes are mobilized, but the deeper causes are usually material (land, water, resources, migration, governance). So linguistic identity is more of a rallying tool than the root of the conflict itself.

>Kannadigas look at mumbai and see marathi reduced to kaamwali/working class guy status and dont want that to happen to kannada too

That argument doesn’t really hold up because the situation in Mumbai is rooted in a completely different demographic and economic history. Marathi wasn’t “reduced” to a working class language because outsiders forced it down, Mumbai became a financial hub that attracted migrants from all over India, and the prestige language naturally shifted to English in business and higher education. The same thing happens in every global city, from New York to Singapore.

Kannada isn’t under that kind of threat in Bangalore. For one, Bangalore is still firmly within Karnataka’s cultural ecosystem, unlike Mumbai, which historically has had multiple overlapping identities (Gujarati, Marathi, Konkani, Parsi, Anglo, etc). Also, Kannada has institutional backing, education, administration, local politics, so it’s not going to fade into “kaamwali” status. What actually creates resentment isn’t the language shift itself but the fear of being economically sidelined, which again is more about jobs, migration, and class than about Kannada vs. Hindi or English.